CK
ScanFlyer Mile High Club
http://www.impactpub.com.au/micebtn/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2406&Itemid=50
Det hadde blitt en slagkraftig enhet - og rett inn i Star Alliance, takk!
Sir Richard vil ha bmi
- Thread starter CK
- Start date
Det hadde blitt en slagkraftig enhet - og rett inn i Star Alliance, takk!
Virker jo som Lufthansi bygger et Europeisk Imperium akkurat nå. Så tviler på at de vil la Virgin overta BMI. Ikke uten at de får inflytelse på Virgin Atlantic. Og det er vel ikke Sir Richard helt klar for. Han øsnker vel å få kontroll over Singapore Airlines sine aksjer i Virgin Atlantic.
Selg SAS, SELG !!!
og sir Ricard får også med seg de attraktive slot-tidene på LHR
Det er det som er Virgins primære mål. Han trenger slot-tidene til ytterligere satsing på oversjøiske ruter.
BU662
critical mind
Vel, hva vil Branson egentlig???
Han har solgt nesten 50% av Virgin Atlantic, han stenger Virgin Nigeria, Virgin Sun er nedlagt og han er ute av Virgin Blue. Han har en minoritets-eierpost i Virgin America. Alt dette er en skyggen av gamle glansdager hvor han eide alt av disse selskaper.
Ser vi litt pa situajonen na sa ser vi at sammenordning i Europa begynner na. Lufthansa begynner a spise opp noen av de mellomstore selskaper. SN er förste, de snakker med AZ og LOT pynter seg for salg.
Nar det gjelder BMI sa har LH sagt klar at de vil kjöpe den. Kontrakten med Sir Bishop gir dem en klar opsjon a kjöpe disse andeler fra Bishop. Dermed ville LH faktisk eie 80% av BMI. Og man kan stille spörsmalet: Trenger en LH deretter egentlig en Virgin Atlantic i dagens form, da vi ser mere og mere konkurranse innen Business Segment til/ fra LHR???
Virgin Atlantic star i fare a bli den selskap som "mister toget". BMI er - sett fra verdi selskap har for LH - 3 ganger större enn Virgin Atlantic. Det hva LH betaler er slots ved LH, og da er BMI nesten 3 ganger större.
Sa alt hva Branson forsöker na er a holde Virgin Atlantic inne i denne spillet. Mens det er helt klart at han og Virgin Atlantic er en av disse selskaper som vil forsvinne. Mens med sist ukens resultater er det jo ikke overraskende at han forsöker a fokussere litt lys pa sitt eget selskap...
Han har solgt nesten 50% av Virgin Atlantic, han stenger Virgin Nigeria, Virgin Sun er nedlagt og han er ute av Virgin Blue. Han har en minoritets-eierpost i Virgin America. Alt dette er en skyggen av gamle glansdager hvor han eide alt av disse selskaper.
Ser vi litt pa situajonen na sa ser vi at sammenordning i Europa begynner na. Lufthansa begynner a spise opp noen av de mellomstore selskaper. SN er förste, de snakker med AZ og LOT pynter seg for salg.
Nar det gjelder BMI sa har LH sagt klar at de vil kjöpe den. Kontrakten med Sir Bishop gir dem en klar opsjon a kjöpe disse andeler fra Bishop. Dermed ville LH faktisk eie 80% av BMI. Og man kan stille spörsmalet: Trenger en LH deretter egentlig en Virgin Atlantic i dagens form, da vi ser mere og mere konkurranse innen Business Segment til/ fra LHR???
Virgin Atlantic star i fare a bli den selskap som "mister toget". BMI er - sett fra verdi selskap har for LH - 3 ganger större enn Virgin Atlantic. Det hva LH betaler er slots ved LH, og da er BMI nesten 3 ganger större.
Sa alt hva Branson forsöker na er a holde Virgin Atlantic inne i denne spillet. Mens det er helt klart at han og Virgin Atlantic er en av disse selskaper som vil forsvinne. Mens med sist ukens resultater er det jo ikke overraskende at han forsöker a fokussere litt lys pa sitt eget selskap...
Han angrer vel på at han solgte 49 % av Virgin Atlantic og ønsker å kjøpe disse aksjene tilbake. Virgin Nigeria er vel en helt grei exit. Butikken er ikke god nok. I USA får han ikke eie mer. Så jeg vil ikke si at det er så spesielt. Branson har også vært flink til å selge selskaper for å få kapital til andre virksomehter. På meg virker han ikke fanatisk etter å eie alt under varemerket.
Jeg er ikke helt sikker på at Virgin Atlantic er det selskapet som står svakest på IC fra Europa. Virker som de har funnet sin nisje. De har også ganske bra tall fortiden. Men helt klart at det er viktig for ham å få flere slots, og gjøre selskapet mer robust i forhold til den konkuransen som nå kommer fra f.eks Lufthansa.
CK
ScanFlyer Mile High Club
Richard - I'm afraid you're not completly updated on The Virgin Group.
Years ago - I forget when - Virgin Group sold 49% of VS to Singapore Airlines. the partnership did not give the desired effects, for either airline, and SIA has stated that they want out, and Virgin wants to buy the share back. That this hasn't happened yet, must be because there's an argument over price. Virgin Group's strategy all along has been to partner with other companies, and not neccessarily have a controlling interest in the Virgin-branded companies. The record label - that stated it all - was sold more than a decade ago, and still provides Virgin Group with some nice reoyalites I assume.
As for Virgin America, Virgin Group was orced to water-down it's share in the carrier due to restrictive American ownership laws (land of the free, yeah right...). Virgin Blue is owned 25% by Virging Group. The carrier was the target of a hostile take-over two years ago, but in the end the company wanting to take over Virgin Blue was itself taken over, and Virgin could hold on to its quarter-share of the airline.
I am a bit puzzeled by your remark that Virgin Atlantic is one of the carriers that will disappear. VS posted a better-than-last year Q2 result (partly due to the trouble at BA's T5, but still).
LH wants bmi for the same reasons that VS - access to Fortress Heathrow, but for VS it will also give it feed (on the short-haul routes that are deamed valuable enough to be kept). LH (as well as SK) has been said to have an option to buy the rest of bmi should Sir Michael Bishop want to sell. Thus far he has held on to the carrier. He is the majority share-holder (50% + one share), and he is a shrewd business-man. An option to buy is (as SAS knows in the case of airBaltic), no sure thing. And, it is always possible to get out of old agreements...
Years ago - I forget when - Virgin Group sold 49% of VS to Singapore Airlines. the partnership did not give the desired effects, for either airline, and SIA has stated that they want out, and Virgin wants to buy the share back. That this hasn't happened yet, must be because there's an argument over price. Virgin Group's strategy all along has been to partner with other companies, and not neccessarily have a controlling interest in the Virgin-branded companies. The record label - that stated it all - was sold more than a decade ago, and still provides Virgin Group with some nice reoyalites I assume.
As for Virgin America, Virgin Group was orced to water-down it's share in the carrier due to restrictive American ownership laws (land of the free, yeah right...). Virgin Blue is owned 25% by Virging Group. The carrier was the target of a hostile take-over two years ago, but in the end the company wanting to take over Virgin Blue was itself taken over, and Virgin could hold on to its quarter-share of the airline.
I am a bit puzzeled by your remark that Virgin Atlantic is one of the carriers that will disappear. VS posted a better-than-last year Q2 result (partly due to the trouble at BA's T5, but still).
LH wants bmi for the same reasons that VS - access to Fortress Heathrow, but for VS it will also give it feed (on the short-haul routes that are deamed valuable enough to be kept). LH (as well as SK) has been said to have an option to buy the rest of bmi should Sir Michael Bishop want to sell. Thus far he has held on to the carrier. He is the majority share-holder (50% + one share), and he is a shrewd business-man. An option to buy is (as SAS knows in the case of airBaltic), no sure thing. And, it is always possible to get out of old agreements...
CK
ScanFlyer Mile High Club
VS scorer jevnt over milesvis over de fleste av sine europeiske konkurrenter hos pax'en - både over Atlanteren og til Asia:musikk
BU662
critical mind
CK:
Is a better than expected 2Q a life-insurance for VS? Or will they at the end have to choose an alliance, one of the 3 big and aren't all these alliances dominated by a very large carrier already? And don't we see more and more medium-sized carriers getting into trouble now? Think back a few years how KLM lost their independence...
Getting out of old agreements...
Surely, but I think that SK proves very good how difficult it can be to get out of airline investments if they are bad investments. BT has a -10% margin, who wants to buy that? JK sale has flopped already.
There will be a solution to the BMI question before year-end. Bishop is clever, but he also knows who is gonna pay the highest price...
Is a better than expected 2Q a life-insurance for VS? Or will they at the end have to choose an alliance, one of the 3 big and aren't all these alliances dominated by a very large carrier already? And don't we see more and more medium-sized carriers getting into trouble now? Think back a few years how KLM lost their independence...
Getting out of old agreements...
Surely, but I think that SK proves very good how difficult it can be to get out of airline investments if they are bad investments. BT has a -10% margin, who wants to buy that? JK sale has flopped already.
There will be a solution to the BMI question before year-end. Bishop is clever, but he also knows who is gonna pay the highest price...
Tommy777
ScanFlyer Mile High Club
This is a little silly. First of all, I think this is more politics than real interest from VS side. VS has shown that they can run an independent airline for many years now and CKs point was that while most airlines were under performing or losing money in Q2, VS did better than expected. That tells you a lot about the airline.
VS has the best premium product across the Atlantic and has always made money, they will be there in the future, even on their own. People actually pay more to fly VS, and we are not talking about low fare tickets here, but 8K+USD tickets.
And when it comes to history, CK hits the nail on the head. Branson has not HAD to sell anything, but has done so in order to get the cooperation with SQ going and now that it's not what either party had hoped for, he has enough cash to buy back his share. All these transactions have been done ages ago, long before fuel prices skyrocketed and airlines started to get in to trouble. Nothing needed to be done, no capital increase to buy new planes, VS is still making money and have billions in the bank.
Also, who says that he has to own everything? What;s the advantage in that? He still controls the companies, products and strategy. If your statement about Virgin America made sense, why doesn't Lufthansa own more of JetBlue?? The answer is easy: Neither Richard Branson or LH can own a share more due to ridiculous American laws.
The fact is that Richard Bransons is worth more money than ever and he knows how to run an airline
VS has the best premium product across the Atlantic and has always made money, they will be there in the future, even on their own. People actually pay more to fly VS, and we are not talking about low fare tickets here, but 8K+USD tickets.
And when it comes to history, CK hits the nail on the head. Branson has not HAD to sell anything, but has done so in order to get the cooperation with SQ going and now that it's not what either party had hoped for, he has enough cash to buy back his share. All these transactions have been done ages ago, long before fuel prices skyrocketed and airlines started to get in to trouble. Nothing needed to be done, no capital increase to buy new planes, VS is still making money and have billions in the bank.
Also, who says that he has to own everything? What;s the advantage in that? He still controls the companies, products and strategy. If your statement about Virgin America made sense, why doesn't Lufthansa own more of JetBlue?? The answer is easy: Neither Richard Branson or LH can own a share more due to ridiculous American laws.
The fact is that Richard Bransons is worth more money than ever and he knows how to run an airline
MD11
ScanFlyer Dusty
BMI har også et godt utviklet rutenett til CIS og Sentral Asia som de arvet fra overtagelsen av BMED. Dette er ruter som gir gode penger i kassen grunnet høyere yield og liten konkurranse fra UK og Europa generellt. Økonomien og forretningslivet er på full fart oppover i Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Azerbaidsjan etc..
Tommy777
ScanFlyer Mile High Club
I motsetning til flyselskapet du har saa stor respekt for og kaller genier, har Virgin Atlantic tjent penger 20 av de 23 aarene selskapet har eksistert http://www.virgin-atlantic.com/tridion/images/kitfinancial_tcm4-523175.pdf
Klart at T5 har en effekt, de andre to aktoerene har hatt null innflytelse paa VS sine tall. VS gir nemlig ikke bort businessbilletter..
Selv om noen av kundene vil gaa tilbake til BA, har ihvertfall VS hatt en mulighet til aa vise seg frem til konkurrentenes kunder, du kan banne paa at noen har faatt meget stor sans for VS og ikke vil gaa tilbake. Dersom penger ikke spilte noen rolle vet ihverfall jeg at jeg hadde valgt VS Upper Class hver eneste gang jeg skulle over atlanteren
Ikke alle kan lykkes 100% i forretningslivet, men Virgin Express var ihvertfall saapass bra at de var en viktig faktor for at Sabena ikke klarte aa overleve..
Her er du paa tynn is, Richard. Du har vist at du overhodet ikke har peiling paa Richard Branson og hans selskaper. Branson har nok cash til aa betale alle flyene Kjos har bestilt OG har opsjon paa, CASH og fortsatt ha penger igjen. Det i min bok nok til aa kalles genialt
Klart at T5 har en effekt, de andre to aktoerene har hatt null innflytelse paa VS sine tall. VS gir nemlig ikke bort businessbilletter..
Selv om noen av kundene vil gaa tilbake til BA, har ihvertfall VS hatt en mulighet til aa vise seg frem til konkurrentenes kunder, du kan banne paa at noen har faatt meget stor sans for VS og ikke vil gaa tilbake. Dersom penger ikke spilte noen rolle vet ihverfall jeg at jeg hadde valgt VS Upper Class hver eneste gang jeg skulle over atlanteren
Ikke alle kan lykkes 100% i forretningslivet, men Virgin Express var ihvertfall saapass bra at de var en viktig faktor for at Sabena ikke klarte aa overleve..
Her er du paa tynn is, Richard. Du har vist at du overhodet ikke har peiling paa Richard Branson og hans selskaper. Branson har nok cash til aa betale alle flyene Kjos har bestilt OG har opsjon paa, CASH og fortsatt ha penger igjen. Det i min bok nok til aa kalles genialt
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MartinL
ScanFlyer Dusty
Vel, siden LH stakk av med BMI istedet for Branson velger da Virgin Plan-B : Codeshare
http://www.virgin-atlantic.com/en/gb/allaboutus/pressoffice/pressreleases/news/bmicodeshare.jsp
http://www.virgin-atlantic.com/en/gb/allaboutus/pressoffice/pressreleases/news/bmicodeshare.jsp
